Friday, November 6, 2009










After living in Bristol, England for a year, I have just returned to NC. The picture is of the Clifton Bridge in Bristol. It was an awesome opportunity to preach and complete my Masters Degree in the land of John Wesley, the founder of Methodism. When Wesley came to Bristol in response to an invitation from George Whitefield, he arrived and saw Whitefield preaching in places other than churches. Wesley saw this and was shocked, but joined in. In his journal he wrote, 'I submitted to being more vile, and proclaimed ... the glad tidings of [Jesus'] salvation to about 3,000 people.' Describing his offense of not preaching in a church Wesley wrote, 'I could scarce reconcile myself at first to this strange way of preaching ... having been all my life (till very lately) so tenacious of every point of order relating to decency and order, that I should have thought, the saving of souls almost a sin if it had not been done in a church'. In other words Wesley is saying that he had previously been was so focused on order that he nearly thought sharing the love of God outside a church was nearly a sin. I'm very grateful that Wesley changed his mind about that. Yet, I wonder what preconceived, man-made thoughts of order and decency do we need to change to share the love of God, even if it requires us to be vile? Think about it.

God loves ya, me too, Kel out

Tuesday, March 17, 2009



















You've seen some pictures of the college, a former mansion. Well, here's what housing for normal folks looks like in Bristol, England. Yes, it's much more densely populated than Kernersville. There's a lot of folks up in here.

God loves ya, me too Kel out.

Monday, February 16, 2009



Hello from the land of Wesley!
As you may of heard, most of England got snow a couple of weeks ago. For some parts, like Bristol, the most in 20 years. It kinda went like this: we got about 2 inches of snow on Monday, then 4 inches of snow Wednesday night. And then 6 more inches of snow Thursday night. By Thursday nearly all from earlier in the week had melted, so it still wasn't very deep. But is the most snow they have had in Bristol in 20 years. There's no sleds to be found. But plenty of snowmen around. The above pic taken was taken in a park. The buses and trains were canceled that Thursday and Friday, so I walked in the snow to get to college on Friday. Took 1 hour and 45 minutes. I had on plenty of clothes and was sweating most of the way. But don't know if I would do it again. I did get a ride home. The joys if being a student in England :).

God loves ya, me too, Kel out.

Thursday, February 5, 2009












Many of you have asked about my seminary work here in England. I'm at Trinity Theological College, a division of the University of Bristol.That's Bristol, England. A very significant place to United Methodists with a lot of Wesley history. The college building is several hundred years old and used to be part of an estate. In other words, it was a house. Maybe I should say a mansion. We Americans think about England and romantic quaint mansions like this. One thing we don' think of is heating a building like this. Like most old buildings here, it's hard to heat and COLD! But aside from that, I am enjoying the training I am receiving here. No, I'm not living on the estate, but am in the inner city of Bristol. Since I am unable to work due to visa restrictions, I have recently started volunteering one day a week at a homeless shelter operated by the Methodist Church. It's sad to see the number of folks who have some very normal problems, but no one to give them a hand when they need it, which results in homelessness. A lot seems to be caused by slight mental illness. Not bad enough to be fully institutionalized, so they are ineligible, but are unable to hold down a full time job and no one to help them stay on their feet. It's kinda scary when I think that Jesus said, what we do to folk who need food, drink, clothes, shelter and friends, we do to Him. (Matthew 25.31-46)

God loves ya, me too, Kel out

Monday, January 19, 2009


The Reverend Dr. King is a huge hero of mine. He didn't want to be a civil rights leader, he wanted to to pastor his church and lead his flock, but God called him to something more. Dr. King became a civil rights leader as an act of obedience to God.



A portion of his I Have a Dream speech:


"I have a dream. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

When we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old ... spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" Kel out.

Thursday, November 27, 2008

Hello from England!

Happy Thanksgiving. (The following info was gathered from several sources.)

It seems that the first Thanksgiving took place in 1621. But in 1624, when a drought threatened all of the crops, which if failed, would result in loss of life, the Governor of Massachusetts, declared a day of prayer and abstaining from food (fasting). When the rain came shortly afterwards, November 29th was proclaimed a day to give thanks to God.

Check out this transcript from Congress:

By the United States in Congress assembled at Philadelphia, the eleventh day of October, in the year of our LORD one thousand seven hundred and eighty-two, and of our Sovereignty and Independence, the seventh. JOHN HANSON, President.Charles Thomson, Secretary.


PROCLAMATION.
IT being the indispensable duty of all Nations, not only to offer up their supplications to ALMIGHTY GOD, the giver of all good, for his gracious assistance in a time of distress, but also in a solemn and public manner to give him praise for his goodness in general, and especially for great and signal interpositions of his providence in their behalf: Therefore the United States in Congress assembled, taking into their consideration the many instances of divine goodness to these States, in the course of the important conflict in which they have been so long engaged; the present happy and promising state of public affairs; and the events of the war, in the course of the year now drawing to a close; particularly the harmony of the public Councils, which is so necessary to the success of the public cause; the perfect union and good understanding which has hitherto subsisted between them and their Allies, notwithstanding the artful and unwearied attempts of the common enemy to divide them; the success of the arms of the United States, and those of their Allies, and the acknowledgment of their independence by another European power, whose friendship and commerce must be of great and lasting advantage to these States:----- Do hereby recommend to the inhabitants of these States in general, to observe, and request the several States to interpose their authority in appointing and commanding the observation of THURSDAY the twenty-eight day of NOVEMBER next, as a day of solemn THANKSGIVING to GOD for all his mercies: and they do further recommend to all ranks, to testify to their gratitude to GOD for his goodness, by a cheerful obedience of his laws, and by promoting, each in his station, and by his influence, the practice of true and undefiled religion, which is the great foundation of public prosperity and national happiness.

(the date was later changed to the last Thursday of November, then changed to the 4th Thursday. )

Thanking God for Jesus is an awesome way to start the season of Advent and CHRISTmas. I am glad these 2 holy-days are back to back.

God loves ya, me too, Kel out!

Monday, October 13, 2008

Thursday, June 5, 2008



St Mark Youth Choir

Almost as year ago as I was preparing for my time as a missionary in Palestine, I was resigning as Pastor of St Mark United Methodist Church. As you may know I took a sabbatical, a leave from parish appointment, to serve at Bethlehem Bible College as a United Methodist Missionary. As seen in the picture above, the Youth choir, with some adult help, rapped a Christian rap song for me. It rocked and praised God all at the same time! Thanks guys!!!!! You see there's no such thing as Christian music, just Christian lyrics and words to put music that praise God. The music doesn't praise God, (although it may be written and played to honor God), it's the words we sing, or rap, that praise Jesus. Kel out



Tuesday, May 13, 2008


The opportunity to pray at a National Day of Prayer event at a Federal Courthouse was a very significant event to me after being in places where it is dangerous for Christians to pray in public,in Jesus' name, much less on government owned property. Don't take this freedom we have lightly, we may not have it one day. Thanks for inviting me Patsy and Barbara!

So what are your summer vacation plans? How about a short term mission trip. Check out www.umvim.org click on Volunteer Opportunities, then on the category that interests you. Or look at www.themissionsociety.org then click on Go, then Short Term. These are just a couple of suggestions, there are many good organizations, many doing short term trips here in the US to places like Katrina hit areas, Native American reservations, inner city areas and homeless shelters, KY, Western North Carolina and other areas of the Appalachian Mountains, and there are many international opportunities. Ask your pastor, many churches have places and events ongoing with opportunities for all ages. Most agencies can place you on a team if you don't have a group. And if you're unable, or don't want to travel, check with your local homeless shelter and agencies that provide daily meals such as these in Winston: Samaritan Ministries, the Rescue Mission, Salvation Army, or Bethesda Center. There are plenty of needs right around us. Remember, YOU are the Body of Christ, the hands and feet of Jesus. When Jesus feeds, clothes, builds homes & churches, and shares His love with people, He does it through believers. Where you help it doesn't matter, the important thing is that you and the people you help won't be the same!

God loves ya, me too, Kel out

Wednesday, April 30, 2008







Welcome to Bethlehem - the entrance.

Praise God! That's what we did at Morris Chapel Church Sunday night. We had a great praise and worship band, and an awesome time of praising God. And we had Pastor Chris get us fired up with his: "I don't know about you, but I came here to praise God". It's awesome to see him do that and folks really respond. I loved this worship service and many people came out. Hopefully MC will increase the frequency. Thanks to Pastor Chris and all the folks involved in this service for inviting me out and giving me the opportunity to share my Bethlehem experiences, but most importantly, to tell about our brothers and sisters in Christ in Bethlehem.

Thursday May 1st is the National Day of Prayer and I have been invited to pray at the NDP service being held at the Federal Courthouse in downtown Winston Salem. What an awesome opportunity to pray at a government building with government employees. You know some folks will be mad. We'll pray for them too. If weather is allows, the service will be held outside and open to the public. It's in a court yard near the building. It starts at 12:00. So if you are downtown and free at noon, come on down and join us as we pray and praise God.

God loves ya, me too, Kel out.

Tuesday, April 22, 2008






A picture of a mosaic of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus as a baby from the church built where Jesus is thought to have been killed, buried, and rose from the dead.


You guys have been asking when & where will I be speaking next? This Sunday, April 27, I will be at anoTHEr WAY service at Morris Chapel UM Church in Walkertown. I will be sharing more stories from Bethlehem, but most importantly, about our brothers & sisters in Christ in Bethlehem and the day to day stress they live in.
This is Morris Chapel's modern worship service with causal dress and a relaxed environment, with modern praise music to worship God and a time to learn more about Him. It's the 3rd Sunday of the month at 7pm in evening. Here's a link for more info and directions: http://www.vchurches.com/26553/service.aspx?pID=58939

Speaking of modern worship services in Walkertown, Love's UM Church has one every Sunday morning at 9:00 in their fellowship hall. It too is casual, with good modern worship music, with teaching that applies to day to day life, not just eternity. I don't have a web site for them, but the church is located right across the street from the Walkertown Elementary School.

God loves ya, me too, Kel out.

Thursday, April 3, 2008

















Krispy Kreme in Oxford, England. Imagine my surprise as I walked around the corner and saw this.


God is awesome! What a great trip to England. Not quite as adventurous as Bethlehem, which one of my friends translates to mean "safer than Bethlehem", but it was great to spend time with several missionaries I met in Bethlehem and see the work they are doing. Some are preparing for fulltime mission service and are hoping to return to Bethlehem, while others are aware that their mission field is Bristol and sharing the love of Jesus with the folks there. As I have mentioned before, Christians only comprise 2-3% of the British population. This really saddened me, but it seems that this small minority is fired up for Jesus. And it seems like all of the dead wood & the branches that don't bare fruit have been cut off, as Jesus said in John 15.2.

These folks in Bristol are engaged in some creative ministries of outreach. They are involved in making space in their churches for coffee shops where people of the community can come in have a good cup of coffee or tea, and learn about Jesus if they want. You have to know that these churches are located in inner city areas, surrounded by poverty, crime, homelessness, etc. and unlike in the Bible belt of the states, most folks in these areas don't know much about Christians, or a church, or Jesus. So a coffee shop is a great way to reach out to people in a non threatening way. So is a holistic healing center that a church and my friend are in the planning stages of. New age spirituality and healing are very common in England (and in many parts of the US too), so these folks are creating a place based on Biblical Christian doctrine and values that address spiritual, mental, emotional, and physical healing, knowing that all of these areas are tied into one's spiritual life and relationship with God. Churches in Bristol are feeding the hungry and homeless for free. Imagine this, instead of requiring people to pay to eat, they GIVE meals to those in need one day a week. I could really get fired up and preach on this, but I am restraining myself.

What these folks are doing, are what we in the states need to be doing, assessing the needs of the community in which they find themselves and trying to meet these needs to engage these people. (It's called need based evangelism) In doing so meeting people where they are and sharing the love of Jesus, instead of requiring them to come into the church on Sunday morning for the first time. If you've forgotten how intimidating that is, go by yourself and visit a church where no one knows you. I've been reminded of this lately as I have been visiting different churches to preach. It's pretty scary at times even for me as the preacher. So let's meet folks where they are in love and grace even if we have to go out of our way just as Jesus did to meet the women at the well.


God loves ya, me too, Kel out

Tuesday, March 25, 2008

I hope you all had a wonderful Resurrection weekend as we celebrated the foundation of our beliefs!

I have heard some you in the states complaining about petrol (gasoline) prices. (thanks Henson) Well considering something such as petrol prices as either a blessing or a curse, is all a matter of perspective. For those of you who are whining, let me change your perspective. I've been paying over $8 a gallon here. Instead of complaining, how about praising God for what you are paying!

Some of you have been asking about serious things such as food. I went to the English version of the Mickey's Restaurant last week. After 2 weeks of oatmeal, I had to venture out. I went to a cafe that I spotted on an earlier recon trip, that is much more urban than Mickey's, but seems to be the English urban equivalent. I ordered the medium breakfast which consisted of 2 sausage links, bacon which looked more like country ham, 1 egg fried, white beans in sauce (like pork n' beans), and cooked peeled whole tomatoes, and toast. It was quite tasty. I wasn't sure about the beans, but they were good.

You are Barabbas (St Mark folks will understand this), Jesus is alive and loves you, spread the good news. Kel out

Saturday, March 22, 2008

















Wow, it's Resurrection Weekend. On Friday I was able to participate in a multi church cross walk and prayer session. If you think walking down the streets of Kville with about 300 other folks with a police escort makes you a bit shy as people wonder why we are walking with a cross, try walking down the sidewalk in inner city England with only 20 other people and have folks stare at ya. It does tend to make one a tad nervous, but we can either stand up for Jesus or be ashamed, and I didn't want to be ashamed. I thought about what Jesus said: "If anyone acknowledges me publicly on earth, I will openly acknowledge that person before my Father in heaven. But if anyone denies me on earth, I will deny that person before my Father in heaven.",so I waved, smiled at, and prayed for the folks who laughed at us and mocked us.

All over the world Sunday people will be celebrating the resurrection of Jesus and what this means for us. I have the honor of preaching on this most Holy day at Victory Church in Exeter. I'll be in England, preaching to an Indian Assembly of God congregation that meets at a Baptist Church.
I hope you have a significant, joyful, and meaningful Resurrection weekend. Praise God Jesus is risen! God loves ya, me too, Kel out


Sunday, March 16, 2008


Before coming to England, I had heard how Christianity had declined here. I heard how when you drive around you see all of these former church buildings which are now taverns, pubs, museums, etc. The church to the left is now a used car lot.

As I write, there's a women's prayer group going on downstairs and I hear them playing the guitar and singing
How Great is Our God, one of my favorite songs, and it is beautiful.

It is heartbreaking as I go through town and see all of these former churches. Why is this? Is America headed in this direction? You see, YOU are the Body of Christ. If we don't do God's will and the work He has for us to do, this is what happens. One of my good friends, Pastor Otto, has on the closing of his emails a quote from someone that says, "We are the ones we have been waiting for."

We Americans are highly indebted for the Christian teaching and nourishment that began here in Bristol and headed westward to us. It's sad to see this decline in an area where generations of Americans have benefited from Wesley, his teaching, his lay pastors, and what evolved into the United Methodist church, etc. The folks I am here with are trying to change this decline. They are involved in some creative ways of reaching out to folks, meeting them and their needs wherever they happen to be in life by reaching out, loving and sharing.

Jesus said if we love Him, we will obey His teachings (John 14.15). Some of us would argue is His most important teaching is for us to make followers (disciples). How are you doing in that area? I know, it's tough and everyone thinks that's the pastor's job, but if you're a Christian, it's your job. But instead of telling someone what Jesus can do for them, tell them what He has done for you! If you have nothing to tell, then you may not have a relationship with Jesus. John writes,
"And we can be sure that we know him [Jesus] if we obey his teachings. If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s teachings, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth. (1John 2.3-4)

Will the place you worship be a car lot in 50 years? What are you doing to prevent it? Are you sharing Jesus? Today is Palm Sunday and the beginning of Holy Week when some 2000 years ago Jesus headed into Jerusalem to die for you and me. He died for us, what are we doing for Him?

God loves ya, me too, Kel out


Thursday, March 13, 2008

Please pray



Hey guys, there are some tough things going on in Bethlehem. Please keep our brothers and sisters in Christ in prayer. Also pray for a dude named Steve I met here in Bristol. Thanks! God loves ya, me too. Kel out

Saturday, March 8, 2008


Cheers and hello from England. I am here in Bristol getting adjusted and seeing the different ministry opportunities. Friday I met Peter and Jane in downtown Bristol. They are Anglican Church missionaries who lived across the hall from me in Bethlehem. It was awesome to see them. It had only been a couple of months since I had seen them, but I had really missed them. They showed me around town and then went to "The New Room". This is the oldest Methodist Church in the world. We attended a lunch worship service and participated in a Lenten Holy Communion. Here's some info about Wesley and this church from a website with a comment or two of mine added. After studying Wesley for years, it was awesome to be here.


John Wesley first came to Bristol at the pleading of George Whitefield in 1739. Whitefield was leaving on a second visit to Georgia and, before he sailed, needed Wesley to sustain the work he had begun. Once the Bristol churches had been closed to him, Whitefield began to speak in the open air to the people of Kingswood, "proclaiming the glad news of salvation".

Wesley was unsure about the ecclesiastically irregular field preaching and came to Bristol somewhat reluctantly. At first he was taken aback by what was happening and wrote he "could scarce reconcile myself to his (Whitefield's) strange way of preaching in the fields". But a few days later, with the departure of Whitefield, he "submitted to become more vile" and in the brickyards preached to (he estimated) 3,000 people.[I love that, Wesley became "vile" and stepped out of the norm to share the good news of God's love, let's do the same] He continued preaching to the poor in the open air, gathering those who responded into religious societies which met in people's homes. Within weeks their numbers had increased so much that a new meeting place was needed. He bought a small patch of land and built what he called "our new room in the Horsefair".

It was used as a dispensary and schoolroom for the poor people of the area as well as for meetings and worship and for 18 Conferences. The Bristol Conference charged with the deepest significance was held in 1771 which took an open stand on the issue of "free and sovereign and universal grace", as opposed to Calvinism.

It was here, in a small room, that the Methodist class-meeting originated which became the basis for membership. The place is still known today by Methodists throughout the world as "the New Room" - the oldest purpose-built Methodist building in the world and the first-ever Methodist chapel, the only building which takes us straight back to the beginning of the Methodist story.

For those who are Methodists (and many others),our heritage is that of meeting people where there are, going to them, not waiting for them to come to us, stepping out of our norms, even to become vile in our own eyes, to share the good news of Jesus. Let's remember that and get out there. Jesus said to GO and make DISCIPLES, not to sit and wait for them to come! I'm preaching Sunday, prayers are appreciated. God love's ya, me too, Kel out!


Friday, February 29, 2008

Moving Out


I'm back. Sorry for the absence. At missionary training they told us that the return culture shock to the States was much worse than when we are deployed, and they were right. I thought that because I was aware of this, I would be ok. But if I am honest, it's been a couple of tough months as I have been getting adjusted. They told us that depression and even suicide were common with returning missionaries, and I understand that. I understand my friends who returned from the mission field and talked about their depression. Satan is an enemy that tires in all ways to keep us down and ineffective for the Kingdom of God, but God is AWESOME. While here and going through this, I recalled an email I received while in Bethlehem from a great friend who gave me the kick I needed to suck it up, and MOVE OUT when I was being heavily attacked by Satan. Coop talked about SERE military training - Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape. Sometimes when Satan is dogging us, that's what we have to do, focus on getting back to the front lines for the Lord! That's what I'm doing now, getting back to the front lines. The front lines are where ever we are. You don't have to go overseas, or to a economically depressed, or war torn area. For many of us the front line is our job, home, school, community or church.

Sometimes God does send us out to certain places. I am moving out again. I'm going to England to visit some missionaries I met while in Bethlehem and see the work they are doing. This will be a short term trip. I'll be there for only a few weeks. The latest studies show that the Christian population in England is only 2-3% of the total population. Yes, 2-3%! These dudes who I am going to visit have some very unique ways of reaching out to people in their community and offering God's love and healing in an holistic way addressing spirit, mind and body.


As I preached and told you about OUR mission in Bethlehem, I haven't done a good job of communicating about this trip. I was so passionately into telling about our brothers and sisters in Christ in Bethlehem, and the struggles they are going through, I often forgot to mention this. So as I prepare to go, I ask you to keep me in prayer.

It was great to be in your churches seeing you all again and reporting about OUR mission. Last week I was at St Mark, and it was AWESOME!!!

God bless ya!!
God loves ya, me too, Kel out.

Thursday, January 17, 2008




This is the view looking out of the front door of Bethlehem Bible College




Mission partners, as I go through the debriefing process of our work in Bethlehem, I think of all the support, prayers and encouragement that sustained me through the rough times. You are awesome! You were obedient when God prompted you to pray, email, and donate. The words of the Apostle Paul from his letter to the Believers in Philippi fits so well: "I thank my God every time I remember you.
In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of YOUR PARTNERSHIP in the gospel from the first day until now"... (1.3-5) I am finding it will take a long time to process all I experienced in Bethlehem. During missionary training, the instructors taught about the reverse culture shock one experiences when returning to the states. I knew this so I thought I would be alright. But I have had a difficult time, as I was taught I would, upon my return. But as we know God is awesome and meets all our needs (not wants).

National Geographic did a great story on Bethlehem, here's the link. Check it out and look at the pics. This explains a lot about Bethlehem better than I can.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/2007-12/bethlehem/finkel-text.html
More later. God loves ya, me too, Kel out.

Friday, December 28, 2007










Preaching in Bethlehem on the 3rd Sunday of Advent.

Hello all. Joy to the World, the Lord is born!!!!! Jesus' actual birthday was probably around Jan 6th, what many Christians regard as Epiphany, Christ's appearing. So let's keep celebrating Jesus' birth till Jan 6th. If you can stand it, leave your CHRISTmas decorations up till then. When you neighbors ask why you still have them up, it gives you a great opportunity to remind them the reason for our celebrations and to not allow retailers to dictate our holy-day season. Here's a little history on how we came celebrate Dec 25 as the day of Jesus' birth.

Early in the fourth century, the Roman church decreed that December 25 would be recognized as the birthday of Christ. However, the churches in Jerusalem rejected the December 25 date until the seventh century.

St. John Chrysostom, Bishop of Constantinople at the end of the fourth century wrote: "On this day also the Birthday of Christ was lately fixed at Rome in order that while the heathen were busy with their profane ceremonies, the Christians might perform their sacred rites undisturbed. They (the heathens) call this (December 25th), the Birthday of the Invincible One (Mithras); but who is so invincible as the Lord Jesus? They call it the Birthday of the Solar Disk, but Christ is the Sun of Righteousness."

Reverend Rel Davis writes:

"The festival of Christmas has always been a controversial one in Christianity. The Puritans banned Christmas altogether and during the Cromwellian period in England, anyone celebrating Christmas was jailed for heresy. Probably the most hated of all Puritan laws was the one abolishing Christmas and probably led to popular acceptance of royalty (nb: the Restoration) -- at least the King allowed the masses to celebrate Yule!

In America, Christmas was generally outlawed until the end of the last century. In Boston, up to 1870, anyone missing work on Christmas Day would be fired. Factory owners customarily required employees to come to work at 5 a.m. on Christmas -- to insure they wouldn't have time to go to church that day. And any student who failed to go to school on December 25 would be expelled. Only the arrival of large numbers of Irish and northern European immigrants brought acceptance of Christmas in this country.

Christmas did not even begin to be a legal holiday anywhere in the United States until very late in the 1800's, with Alabama being the first state to make it so."

Some of that info is surprising isn't it? The exact date doesn't matter, what matters is that we praise God for His wonderful gift that allows us to spend eternity with Him. Several days ago I was in Shepherd's Field, the place believed to be the location where the angles told the shepherds of Jesus' birth. I was there with someone who could trace his heritage all the way back to these shepherds, the folks who worshiped Jesus even before His ministry. The first human worshipers of Jesus. That's pretty awesome! We see that peace is bringing larger crowds to Bethlehem this year. I have heard that there have been 2 articles in the WS Journal about this, I praise God. Let's keep lifting our brothers and sisters in Bethlehem in prayer. Merry CHRISTmas. God loves ya, Kel out.